Bolt action rifle?
 

I have started a search for a high caliber bolt action and have not decided what one to get. Any advice from you other gun nuts?

What I'm wanting it for:
Mostly wild boar. We can hunt them with whatever we want so long as we do so wisely.

What calibers I've been considering:
.30-06, .308, or suggestions?
I have plenty of ammo in both calibers + I reload for both.
Other calibers I have dies for are 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55 Swede.
Also have an SKS, but would rather carry a bolt action hunting rifle.
Weight is primary but not an ultra-lite. 22-24" barrel, all weather stock. Doesn't have to be top of the line, just one to get the job done, one that will take a beating. I'm thinking Savage.

Everything I'm looking for could be had with one of my 6.5x55 Swede's except to sporterize it would cost about as much as just buying new.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Consider a Howa Lightning. Made in Japan, of excellent quality. And did I say inexpensive for what you get. The Howa and the Savage are the best built new modern inexpensive rifles out there.

That being said, even better in 308 is the Ishapor re-arseneled Enfield with a 10 to 12 round mags for less than 200 bucks.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

If I was in the market for a new bolt gun, I'd be looking at the Savage. I like the Model 11's.
http://www.savagearms.com/11f.htm

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Based on my recent experiences (last 10 years), I've developed a serious preference for Savages, especially models with their new trigger. Caliber? Buy something with a 308 boltface .473" and you can have a swap barrel rifle in host of other calibers. With the Savage barrel nut, it's very easy to change out barrels and get the headspace right. All you need is a fired round or a headspace gauge for that caliber, screw the barrel in until it makes contact and crank down the barrel nut. Even though the 7.62X39 has a slightly smaller head diameter, it will work well with a bolt designed for 308.

Very few people have discovered the possibilities of having one rifle that will accept barrels of a bunch of different calibers. With the Savage it's easy because you don't have to send the rifle to a gunsmith for the fitting. Just buy the barrel and screw it on.

Word of caution: if you have no common sense and/or mechanical aptitude, don't try this but for careful people with a little experience, it's not a big deal.

Current Savage offerings here.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Hve you checked any gun boards.

IE would you care to buy from a private party (If the law allows it in your state) or do you want to buy NIB ?


http://sturmgewehr.com/

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Lt. Dan,

I am in the hunt for a good bolt rifle in 6mm Remington to fill a niche in my arsenal and replace one I sold--a nice custom built for me some years ago on a Rem 700 action with a 28 inch Shilen barrel.

I am liking intermediate calibers more and more these days. I think 6mm shooting 100gr bullets would fill the bill...what do you think?

Regards, SC

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

The gunsmith at Gander Mtn showed me a problem with the new adjustable triggers on the Savages. If you slightly push it sideways it will, or can, jam. He said several of these had come back. So you might want to look into this. I'm not sure this would deter me from getting one. I too have looked at this rifle and it seems like an excellent gun for the money.

s

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

You'd need a 1:8 twist barrel to stabilize that bullet.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Mine was 1:10 and would shoot 100s under .5 inches.

Remington 244s were 1:12 originally, then was renamed Remington 6mm and factory barrels were recut with 1:9 twist, my preference.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

I shoot a 6 MM round at 1000 yard competitions, my current favorites are 105 grain Lapua Scenars but there are a bunch of really good bullets between 100 and 110 grains. Virtually everyone uses 1:8, I'm surprised slower will work. Probably has something to do with stability and the velocity loss at very long ranges.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

I've not been in the market for years for such a rifle, but if I hunted hogs today I'd quickly grab my old Marlin model 1894 lever action in .44 magnum.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...right-side.jpg

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but you asked me ...

My quaint little .44 rifle holds 10 FAST shots in the magazine, busts through brush, same principle as the m-16 vs Ak-47 there, carries a 240grain fat slug, points and swings well, weighs 6lbs and is 36" long, easy to carry in one hand, a fat bolt-action is not so cozy in one-hand -- all good for hog hunting. Lever guns are just 'more fun' and this job has little demand for the precision of a bolt-action. My Marlin has a Williams receiver-mounted peep sight with the target aperture removed so it is much like a 'ghost ring' and very fast and reliable in any conditions. We used to hunt wild deer and hogs in South Carolina low-country swamps in front of dogs and I'll tell you that 12ga 00 buckshot at 15yds+ will NOT always penetrate the hard bony plate surrounding a hog's ribcage, usually it will not in fact. They just keep on going and going... but a .44 magnum even from a pistol barrel always seems to work well and I've seen some big ones go down to it. Sometimes the guys I hung with crawled into brush on their knees and then killed them with .44 revolvers up close and quite well.

That's my OPINION about your decision to select a bolt action as a hog gun... but that being said ...

The .308 Winchester is very versatile, especially in handloading options, and a short throw action, unlike the long cartridge of the 30-06 Springfield. The 7mm-08 is plenty powerful, but optimizes long range ballistics, not a factor here.

I'd use 180-grain ROUND NOSE soft points, perhaps soft enough for the 30-30, if you keep muzzle velocities at or even below 2,400 fps by handloading. This is for minimizing brush deflection, a very real issue on hogs, this speeds a reliable expansion only upon target impact, and reduces undue recoil and blast.

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/s...res/549597.jpg
Speer Hot-Cor Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 180 Grain Round Nose Box of 100

The Savage seems to have a great trigger, although this might matter little on hogs under typical conditions. But crisp predictable trigger is VERY important to me on a bolt-action. I have a 541-S bolt-action .22LR that has a trigger break like a glass toothpick, though yours should be set a pound or so heavier since the rifle will be fired under psychological stress, unlike my .22 with squirrels and targets.

I'd keep the barrel length short (18-22") for busting through brush and trees, maybe climbing and crawling. The stock should fit well and be rugged as a hog in the mud. I think a blued gun is plenty durable for recreational sport and is a lower-visibility item than bright stainless steel as you raise it to fire.

I'd avoid anything with a magnifying scope because a hog shot can be running, close, and he is potentially dangerous game if he panics. Buckhorn sights are good for nothing, IMHO. Consider a Red Dot or a peep sight, or maybe a 2-7x, but I really don't know your expected situation, I'm just using my experience in SC swamps as a guide.

Lastly I'd consider the position of the safety. I like the safeties on my guns to function similarly as I can get them to. Convenience and an automatic response is important. I had a Ruger model 77 in .270 Winchester caliber I never liked. Every time I sighted it from a rest the top tang safety was sitting next to my thumb. When it fired the serrations would cut that thumb, since I hold a rifle pretty loosely on the bench rest, and I never could get over that problem.

Plus the 77 for me in .270 kicked like a mule, I'm recoil shy with rifles only, but where I hunted the only place I needed the .270 was for deer on power-lines or soy-bean fields, all the other stuff I used the Marlin .44 as shown above to good effect.

These are my thoughts, and in summary I'm prejudiced against the bolt-action for this job in the first place, but a Savage .308 or maybe a Hoya would PROBABLY be my pick with your stipulations, assuming you can get to the safety automatically and easily. It looks to be up in front of the bolt, awkward to reach for, but I cant tell.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

The savage is a push feed design, I generally prefer a controlled round feed for hunting.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I started this thread and then went out to change a garage door opener for the neighbor. His wife had been bugging him to get it fixed as it is for her garage door. Being I needed help, to actually raise the whole contraption up, we had to wait for a day he could be home.

So much good info so far, thanks to all. I do have one of those Ishys, we're talking heavy, but trade off is low felt recoil and good accuracy, price was good, but did I say, it's heavy?

My Swede weighs less, It's the M38 so it is cut down in length. Kicks some with the mil stock, steel butt plate. Just installing a peep sight and an after market stock w/recoil pad would probably work for now for what I need. Use the 160gr bullets.

Still and all, I found a real nice .30-06 Winchester Mod 70/Weaver scope in the $ 600 + range. I told the gun shop owner, a friend, I'd have to get permission. :biggrin: He told me I was the boss as long as I was in his shop and my wife couldn't say different. Well I did talk to her about it, and she didn't say no. :wink: I just thought it was too pretty of a firearm to go dragging it through the woods hunting boar.

Hadn't thought of a lever action .44mag. I do have a .44 mag revolver I could carry for a back up.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

savage 7mm dam good long rande shoter

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Taliking about intermediate calibers, what about the Savage in .25-06? It seems there is a renewed interest in this caliber. My best friend hunts up north in WI, has about every caliber made and his deer-slayer is .25-06.

I wish I'd bought a 6mm Rem 788 when they were still being made! My 2nd job was selling sporting goods in a smaller chain discount store in the '70's. Always had my eye on one, but never had the $!

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Lots of interesting calibers to choose from.
1. I am wanting to stay within the choices above for reasons I have already those calibers in other rifles and am equipped to reload in those.
2. Trying to keep cost within reason. While some calibers may be better than what I outlined above, if ammo or reloading costs would increase, that would rule them out.
3. I do agree that the .25-06 round would do the job, good choice if I'd be starting out new. Same for the 7mm-08 or even the .243. I personally lean toward .308 caliber because of interchangeability with .30-06 in bullets which I've thousands of rounds in that. 6.5-06 wildcat round would be something, but there is already a .270 that would do it better, again, start up costs.

To pass my test, cost, practicality, standardized common ammo are main concerns. Has to pass the test of being a companion survival hunting rifle to go along with one of the Military style rifles I already own. Presently that would be 6.5x55, .308, & .30-06. 6.5 is probably out due to it's rareness in common sporter rifles.

So, Howa, Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Weatherby are all ones I've considered. Some are out because of price, others I'm still up in the air over. Not many gun shops in my home range, and I'm one who like to fondly before I buy. There is a gun show coming up the end of the month in a city not too far away.:emotions16: Lot of fondling there.:yippee:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Just more thoughts about the longer 30-06 or the necked down .270 version of the -06 case and most magnums called 'Long Case Cartridges" versus "Short Case Cartridges" like the .308 Winchester and it's necked down versions of the same -08 case, the 7mm-08 and the .243 Winchester cartridge...

Here is the 'actual meaning' on receiver size, figuring weight and length:

On a Remington 700? If the chamber size isn't known, or the receiver isn't barreled, measure the distance between the receiver screws. If 6.5 inches, it's a short action. Likewise, if the screw-to-screw distance is 7.35 inches, it's a long action. On Savage & Winchester...

Screw spacing:
Winchester short action - 7.03"
Savage short action - 4.28"

Winchester long action - 7.57"
Savage long action - 5.06"

Shorter rounds like .223/5.56mm, 308 Win & 243 are short action. .30-06, .270, 300 Win Mag & longer rounds go into long actions.
http://forum.pafoa.org/rifles-42/287...ifference.html

By my math that makes the receiver 0.78" shorter on a SHORT bolt Savage gun. When you open the breech by racking the bolt it seems you would double that, and the LONG bolt would actually be drawn back (2 x 0.78") = a total of 1.56" more to move, more to pull back quickly and smoothly toward your best eye socket... but my calculations are estimates based on that reasoning.

Meanwhile it seems a LONG ACTION rifle carries 3/4" more length and weight of receiver and bolt, not more barrel. The ballistic advantage of a 30/06 is minimal (~100fps) until one gets over 180gr weight slugs. Both are similar 400yd+ rounds.... The sharper slope angle of the bottleneck of the .308 is great for handloading, abundant brass for a .308 due to current target and military use, the -06 is an old girl. The 7.62x51 is a NATO cartridge, not so the -06 in the event of teowawki. It's much easier to safely download a .308 than a .30-06 due to the danger arising from excessive powder space in the case. (I used to handload .308 for my Panther LR308 before it was burglarized)

Thanks for letting me gab, but if you've got the choice now of bolt action calibers... consider... the SHORT CASE?

Also the Remington 788 is a sort of 'classic' old bolt action I remember, but a 'plain jane' with a SHORT ACTION, great for brush and .308 and it's cousin by casing, the .243 Winchester round. It sells for over $500 on GB now used, as much as a new rifle... Pricy today maybe but a good call!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=116832511

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

The guys at longrangehunting.com/forums more or less unofficially voted Savage rifles as the best long range "out of the box" brand. These are the 600 yard+ guys who mostly own custom builds. The Stevens brand is Savage's econo line with pretty much the same quality but less frills. You can get a Stevens .270 synthetic stock 22" blue barreled rifle for under $300. I'm thinking of getting one myself.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

PS: Consider this too please, who can say why one cartridge family is just more ACCURATE than another? But seeing is believing...

In comparing accuracy between the .308 and .30-06, folks who used each quickly agreed on one thing: .308s were two to three times more accurate than the .30-06. In the early 1960s, it was also observed that competitors with lower classifications using .308s were getting higher scores than higher classified folks using .30-06s; at all ranges. By the middle to late 1960s, all the top highpower shooters and virtually all the rest had switched to the .308. The Highpower Committee had received so many complaints of ties not being able to be broke between shooters using the .308 and shooting all their shots in the tie-breaking V-ring, something had to be done to resolve this issue. In 1966, the NRA cut in half the target scoring ring dimensions.

At the peak of the .30-06's use as a competition cartridge, the most accurate rifles using it would shoot groups at 200 yards of about 2 inches, at 300 of about 3 inches. The 600-yard groups were 6 to 7 inches and at 1000 yards about 16 inches. As the high-scoring ring in targets was 3 inches at 200 and 300 yards, 12 inches at 600 and 20 inches at 1000, the top scores fired would have 90+ percent of the shots inside this V-ring.

Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/garan...es;read=175416

USMC Snipers use .308 partly because it is so darn accurate I believe... I believe a .308 Winchester is a sort of rifleman's round of dreams, it does it all well... often BETTER... Just my OPINION, thanks for letting me ramble on! :MIA:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Weatherby Mark V 30-06.

Sub-Moa

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Great posts on long vs. short action and .30-06 vs .308 Win. debate. Going back to the Rem 788's, hard to believe that they would sell for >$500 today! IIRC, they retailed for about $180 back in the day. Still, a lot of money for a 18 y/o making $3/hr! The Savages made today are a much better rifle than the 788; you're right, it was a very basic bolt action rifle.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Thanks again to all. I have been holding off on those deals I've found so far on the .30-06 because, truth be told, I really was hoping to find a .308 because of what my experience and my gut tell me. Thanks koyaanisqatsi, for all the info.

Today the local weekly advertiser came out and there is a flier in it for a gun shop about 35 miles away. I had been thinking of expanding my search there. On the front page there is an ad for a TULA TOZ match grade .308 out of Russia. It come with a free scope, although it does have open sights on the barrel, also has two magazines, hardwood stock, spoon bolt handle. the price? $249.99

Another ad in the same flier has two different Savage models in a range of calibers w/scopes both feature the Accu-trigger, one stainless the other blue. Both models sell for $479.99

So, I need to make a road trip this week and see what's left by the time I get there. I'd really like to look at that Russian .308. It may be the one for what I'm looking for.

On a side note, they do have a Marlin lever gun in .30-30 for $359.99. the ad says nothing about a .44 mag, which would be a consideration. My gut on the .44 mag is that where I would be hunting boar is not swamp, but opened woods with very little brush. I might need the range and shock power of the .308 round. Just thinking out loud.

You guys are the best.:yes:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Lt Dan -

Obviously, it's your rifle to do with what you wish. That being said, there are probably a number of collectors "out there" who would pay a good bit for your M38. The supply on Swedish Mausers has definitely dried up, and the main wholesaler for M38 rifles (Samco Global Arms) is selling rifles with "minor crack in stock", good-very good condition for $310!

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

I do own two of them.

One I bought off the local gun shop, $138. +tax. I've never shot it. It has some minor cracks in the wood, but nothing that couldn't be repaired as they seem to be only surface. Still in it's condition as it came from the importer. I'll not touch that one for now.

The other one and the first one I bought I have done a few mods on but nothing that can't be undone. Thus my reluctance to actually chop it to do a build. I actually bought it with that in mind but didn't have the heart to do it after I really got to shoot it and look it over good. I bought it at a now out of business store front for a major wholesaler here in Ohio. I paid $135 +tax for it. It does head space good, but I'm not sure as to the actual condition of the throat. The muzzle wear is within tolerance so I'm guessing the throat is good too.

The steel used in those Swedish rifles seems to be the best in the world ever used in a firearm as even though there is hardly any bluing left on the exposed parts, there is not one bit of rust on it anywhere. Not all the parts have matching numbers so not sure if collectors would pay much more than what I gave for them originally.

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WAAAH!!! My Swede 38[originally made in 1911] is still somewhere on the bottom of the big south branch of the PM river where it was lost on a high water deer hunting float trip in 94.:bawling:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Yet another tragic boating/water accident resulting in the loss of an excellent firearm. When will this carnage ever end?:bawling:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

LT, I hunt hogs a LOT. As in every day when they're on my place, but I've kept them at bay for a while now.

I don't know what kind of hunting you're talking about doing. There is a big difference in hunting from a stand or truck in open country and busting the brush on foot/4wheeler/horseback.

I mostly hunt in the brush, and even if I catch them in the open I chase them into the brush. When you have a herd of hogs coming at you at close range, you positively don't want a bolt gun, neither do you want a 308/3006.

I love both cartridges, and have and use rifles (mostly M14s and Garands) chambered for them often, but they aren't the best medicine for big hogs. I find a 44mag to put them down a LOT faster.

My favorite rifle for this job is a Win 94 trapper, although any short, handy rifle with high capacity would be fine. I've used a SOCOM 16 as well, but like I said, it takes a headshot to put a big one on the ground DRT, which is what you want if they're at your feet.

Of course, if you're stand hunting, all the above is moot. Any bolt gun will do, but though I know a Savage is probably the best value out there, I'm a M700 man all the way.:wavey:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

I forgot to say, another good option for brush is a shotgun/buckshot. I like an 870 w/ 20" bbl and a +3 extension.

The problem is, I have a bias toward rifles over shotguns, I have no idea why, so I generally have a rifle on hand, and have to specifically bring a shottie.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Thanks eat_beef,
I mostly just want the .308, (decided on that caliber), bolt gun to fill a void. I've not ruled out actually hunting with my M1A, or 870 12ga. I plan on going today to look some more and if I find what I think will do, I'll be posting about it. (Wife has accepted).

For a back up I would like to carry my Glock G23 .40 S&W. I know the .44 mag would be better except that I'm much more accurate with the Glock. We are allowed to carry a concealed weapon while hunting in Ohio. However, it is not to be used for hunting, only self-defense. With boar hunting, there seems to be no such rules, the state wants hunters to kill 'em as they are not classified as game animals.

As to my method, it will mostly be still hunting as I've no one to help drive them, it's private land, not mine, so building a stand is out. (Plus I'm old, chasing any thing is out). Not sure if baiting is legal either, but as far as I have to go to get to the land, I'll not be setting anything up like a stand or bait station. However, I may set up a temporary blind while there.

Back to the rifle, see above post. I did a search on that Russian TULA TOZ 122 in .308 and did find some hits that will influence my choice on those. The picture looks good, but according to one poster on a forum hit, the workmanship looks a little poor, however he did say it was fun to shoot. Also, he reported 3" group at 100yds, that is acceptable but not great for what I'd expect out of a Savage. I am leaning toward the Savage .308 because of possible need for repair parts in the future. What good is $250.00 Russian rifle if the firing pin, extractor or spring breaks and you can't find a replacement?

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Sounds like all good candidates to me. For high power, .308 & .30-06 are both excellent. :wink:

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Yeah, all my stuff is out if you're not hunting them nose to nose. With the 308 you'll want a tough bullet, no ballistic tips. FMJ works OK if you can get away with it. Hogs are tough, you need penetration above all.

Must the rifle be new? You might find a good deal on a used rifle. The pawn shops in my area are literally overflowing. I think the Savage will be fine. Also you might look at the Rem 700 & 788, or any of the other high quality rifles (Win, Ruger, etc.).

I too am afraid of a relatively scarce rifle and parts availability, but any of the above ought to be plentiful enough that you can find spares. Or just buy an extra rifle, that way you always have a spare on hand! (My wife hates that line of thinking!)

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

I have 3 M1 Garand's, I used that line to justify the additional purchases. Also the line, "These will only go up in price and I can always sell them to someone else later!"

Wife just told me to get off the computer and go do what I want to do, back later.
:bull-smile:

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Best value is the Tikka T-3 in .308. Widely available caliber, smooth as butter bolt, Sako reliability/accuracy, adjustable trigger... under $500.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

Gun shops in my part of the state just do not carry a large variety of rifles, then to find one in the caliber you want is still another thing.

So, that said, I came home with a Savage .308 in stainless Model 16XP3 complete with sling, Accu-trigger and scope for $479.99 + tax. The 16 is a short action.

First I asked to look at the Russian, it just didn't feel right and the fit of the parts didn't show me much in quality. Then I asked to see the stainless then the blue. I settled on the stainless even though it does tend to put off a glare, I wanted the easiest to care for in any kind of weather.

Link to picture @ Savage

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Congrats, LT! Nice rifle.

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I vote for a Savage in 308 Win. I have the American Classic which I think is a nice looking Rifle. I have taken antelope at more than 400 yards with a Nosler 150 Grain Ballistic tip over 748 and recently this Elk at about 20 feet with Nosler 165 grain partitions over varget.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...amp2008032.jpg

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Man that's cheap, used? 6.5 pounds + the scope so it will be easy to carry. Congrats!! :clap2: It's so hard to beat 308 for being good at almost everything. One of the best rounds ever.

For hogs you will want at least a 165 grain bullet, you could do worse than the Barnes solids.

You gonna stick a bipod on it?

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New in box.:23_30_104:

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very nice looking gun LT Dan. I like the way the stainless looks against the black. Been some good info on this thread and a couple things to consider I hadn't thought of that much.

I have been looking at these or a remmy 700. I think they are a good comparison. I am hoping to see some in action this weekend before I decide. Probably going to come down to carry weight vs felt recoil. So I am expecting there won't be much in it in the end.

Re: Bolt action rifle?
 

There are muzzle brakes so you can have both.